Two Grown Ass Men
Images & Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

marcus, dna, agent, clark, asks, cpr, defendant, remember, ada, jury, bug bites, happened, coffee, hot tub, pool, choked, interview, fingernails, drugged, dead

SPEAKERS

Reid White, Penny, Marcus Lillard, Agent Maybin, ADA Coffey, Mary Chandler

 

Penny  00:00

I'm Penny Dearmin. This is Season 2: Blood Town on Trial. It's Friday, April 8th, people are starting to speculate about how much longer the trial will go on, who is left for the prosecution to call? Will Marcus Lillard testify? Who will the defense call as witnesses? Most days Marcus's mom and a friend of hers or two are the only ones sitting behind him. The trial is the first time he has seen or hugged his mom since the beginning of COVID restrictions limited visitation at the jail nearly two years ago. Families on both sides have a lot at stake here. Each affected in their own way. Everyone in the courtroom seems to be living off caffeine and adrenaline to keep going and maybe a little fear. As GBI agent Maybin once again takes the stand. ADA Coffey plays the remainder of the recording with Marcus Lillard's interview with ASAC Chandler and Agent Maybin.

 

Mary Chandler  01:01

I'll be honest with you, with things like this, either you're lying. Because you're not going to do CPR for two hours, and you're just like, What the hell, it's just not gonna happen. Or you've been through a crisis and your memory is so far because of the adrenaline dump. You can't remember half the shit was going on. You've got Clark who's dead, so I'm like, you wouldn't just, If you're calm, cool, and collected whe She's dead. You wouldn't go shoot yourself. Something's wrong.

 

Marcus Lillard  01:28

Did he shoot hisself while police were still there? 

 

Mary Chandler  01:30

Yes. 

 

Marcus Lillard  01:31

While I was in the back of the police car?

 

Mary Chandler  01:32

Yes.

 

Marcus Lillard  01:32

Why was he not in the back of a police car?

 

Mary Chandler  01:35

Oh no, I don't know if you were in the back of a police car.

 

Marcus Lillard  01:36

As soon as 911 got there. Within five minutes, of 911 getting there, They put me in the back of a police car.

 

Mary Chandler  01:42

They were getting his information or whatever. And then he went back in the house and shot himself. So then here's my question, why? What did he do that he didn't think he can live with? 

 

Marcus Lillard  01:52

It had to be something. 

 

Mary Chandler  01:53

He didn't tell you? Are you sure? 

 

Marcus Lillard  01:54

No.  Yes

 

Mary Chandler  01:57

Listen to me, Marcus.

 

Marcus Lillard  01:57

I'm positive, I'm positive about that. He did. If he just said something? I'd be in here for something else. 

 

Mary Chandler  02:04

Right. I gotcha.

 

Marcus Lillard  02:05

 I can promise you that. If he gave me any indication that he had injured her that've been a whole 'nother, and I've never heard anybody. I've never. I ain't been in a fight for 25 years.

 

Mary Chandler  02:15

You do have a, look, can we be honest with each other?

 

Marcus Lillard  02:18

That's all drugs. My record

 

Mary Chandler  02:21

You do, now let's be honest with me. You do have a history of choking women, almost to the point of unconsciousness. 

 

Marcus Lillard  02:30

Uhhhhhh, okay. Says who?

 

Mary Chandler  02:31

Some of the ex-girlfriends said that. You said you didn't choke her. Are you sure?

 

Marcus Lillard  02:35

We did not fool around yesterday at all. But,

 

Mary Chandler  02:38

Do you know if Clark would have? Because listen to me 

 

Marcus Lillard  02:42

That's what it's looking like.

 

Mary Chandler  02:43

Listen, you know what's gonna look bad? Is if she's been choked to death and she died from choking. What does that like for you? 

 

Marcus Lillard  02:49

It looks like I did it. But I didn't

 

Mary Chandler  02:52

Is it Clark? Cause you, imma be honest with you, you seem very confident. I know that he got in that pool. I just know. I feel pretty damn certain that they had sex. How the hell do you know that? Like if I go with my boyfriend to somebody's house, I'm not gonna have sex with his friend. Why would you know that? Why don't you have that's what we're trying to get you.

 

Marcus Lillard  03:10

There's something it was something in his demeanor afterwards.

 

Mary Chandler  03:14

Really? That's what I want to I want you to..

 

Marcus Lillard  03:16

 It wasn't words, It wasn't actions, it was just the way he acted. 

 

Mary Chandler  03:19

What did he do? 

 

Marcus Lillard  03:20

He was just, when, when he was doing the CPR. He was being really affectionate with it.

 

Mary Chandler  03:25

HUH?

 

Marcus Lillard  03:25

It was kind of weird. Yes. He was telling her how beautiful she was. 

 

Mary Chandler  03:29

Was he feeling on her? 

 

Marcus Lillard  03:29

No, not that part, well, Maybe. I mean, like I might he may have been kissing instead of blowing at one point. You know, now that I'm looking back on that one point.

 

Mary Chandler  03:32

Are you serious?

 

Marcus Lillard  03:41

 Yeah. 

 

Mary Chandler  03:43

Don't tell me that. Are you being serious? I

 

Marcus Lillard  03:44

I'm being serious. I remember that, now. 

 

Mary Chandler  03:46

He was kissing her instead of doing CPR?

 

Marcus Lillard  03:53

I'm not trying to come for a man that's dead. I can't, I can't say yes or no. Because I mean, it just feels that way.

 

Mary Chandler  04:03

Tell us, let's go back to the CPR. What freaked you out about him giving CPR?

 

Marcus Lillard  04:06

He was just he was whispering sweet nothings in her ear between the breaths and shit. And I don't even remember exactly what he's saying, but it wasn't, It wasn't in a crisis mode like I was in; he was in more of a

 

Mary Chandler  04:18

smooth, yoga.

 

Marcus Lillard  04:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

 

Mary Chandler  04:21

What was he saying?

 

Marcus Lillard  04:22

Well, I don't know. I didn't make it out. I mean, that's what I'm tellin' ya. what's the

 

Mary Chandler  04:25

What's he doing, is he leaning down beside her ear and whispering to her? 

 

Marcus Lillard  04:28

Yeah. I'd say So yeah. What do you mean say so? I can't remember.

 

Mary Chandler  04:32

Help me, Marcus you gotta help me.

 

Marcus Lillard  04:34

I just, I Remember a picture of me just thinking out of all the things that you would say right now.

 

Mary Chandler  04:41

Yeah, but if you're, CPR you're pump, you're 30 and 2, 30 and 2

 

Marcus Lillard  04:47

30 and 2 , yeah.

 

Mary Chandler  04:48

Look, I'm not going to the ear and I ain't got time to be talking to you. Now if I'm in a crisis. Holy shit. Dude, wake up. But I'm not gonna I'm gonna be talking loud enough where I don't need to lean over and, did he? I mean did he lean over and say something in her ear?

 

Marcus Lillard  05:02

he was it was like a continuous dialogue for a few minutes during one of the first little CPR sessions. It was partly encouragement but you could, I just picked up on it. 

 

Mary Chandler  05:12

What was it? 

 

Marcus Lillard  05:13

I don't know exactly what he said but I just picked up on the tone and he said, Alright, Mare, you're gonna be okay. You're gonna be okay you're gonna be okay, 

 

Mary Chandler  05:20

and then what? 

 

Marcus Lillard  05:20

It's just, he just telling her how beautiful she was over and over again.

 

Mary Chandler  05:24

Like whispering or talking?

 

Marcus Lillard  05:25

I mean, both, I mean

 

Mary Chandler  05:28

Alright. Let's get to the kissing part. Do you think he kissed her? 

 

Marcus Lillard  05:30

I think he was kissing on her while he was giving mouth-to-mouth, yes.

 

Mary Chandler  05:33

Why do you say that?

 

Marcus Lillard  05:34

I mean yeah, I feel I feel like I saw that. I saw it. I don't know at what point when where what what Yeah, I saw something like that.

 

Mary Chandler  05:42

What do you mean kissin her? Like French kissin her?

 

Marcus Lillard  05:45

I mean, I just remember just looking at one point it's like this is weird.

 

Mary Chandler  05:50

was he drunk, high? 

 

Marcus Lillard  05:51

Yeah, he was really fucked up. 

 

Mary Chandler  05:53

He was? 

 

Marcus Lillard  05:54

He was really fucked up. 

 

Mary Chandler  05:55

Oh, he was?

 

Marcus Lillard  05:56

Yeah.

 

Mary Chandler  05:57

Was he on hallucinogenics? 

 

Marcus Lillard  06:00

I can't swear to that, but 

 

Mary Chandler  06:01

What do you think? 

 

Marcus Lillard  06:02

They probably 

 

Mary Chandler  06:03

Would it be in the drink you made? Did he really go back inside and get a tea make tea for her?

 

Marcus Lillard  06:07

Yeah. I mean I remember that part clearly; he put, we put, he poured tea on her lips and then nothin' happened.

 

Mary Chandler  06:12

Where did he pour tea on her lips? These steps by your truck or these steps by the pool?

 

Marcus Lillard  06:17

I don't know. I don't remember, I don't know.

 

Mary Chandler  06:21

 What do he just pour it down there or wipe it on there?

 

Marcus Lillard  06:24

that's like, he put it the cup there against her lips, Come here, Mare, drink this. And I was holding her head from up underneath and 

 

Mary Chandler  06:30

Was she making noises?

 

Marcus Lillard  06:31

No

 

Mary Chandler  06:32

 so let's go back to instincts with Clark, so 

 

Marcus Lillard  06:35

For him to have been so nonchalant that for him for her to have been in that water and him be way over there.

 

Mary Chandler  06:42

And when you start saying Marianne, Marianne, you know whatever, coming to her, he would have been approaching with you like Oh shit.

 

Marcus Lillard  06:48

I remember that that really really distinctively of that he wasn't freaking out at all

 

Mary Chandler  06:54

well but listen to me and that's what I told you earlier. Here's the thing though, so you run from here, go to her, you get her she falls out, she rolls, you swim her across on your back which is very odd but that's fine. You're a swimmer, that's fine, you know. You're just you don't make good decisions. But and he doesn't get, you can't remember even if he helped you get her out of the pool. That he's just somewhere in the house, like what the hell is he doing? 

 

Marcus Lillard  07:16

I don't know how long it was. I mean, he wasn't there immediately but he was there fairly quickly.

 

Mary Chandler  07:21

But then was he asking questions what happened what in the world was

 

Marcus Lillard  07:24

No. He never asked a single question

 

Mary Chandler  07:25

He did not? That's what I'm talking about.

 

Marcus Lillard  07:28

No, he never said what do you think happened what what was, I was like, man, her head was underwater.

 

Mary Chandler  07:33

Did he ever tell you not to call 911? 

 

Marcus Lillard  07:34

Uh uh.

 

Mary Chandler  07:36

And she's got bracelets over here and then bracelets over here? The rubber bracelet you gave her is broken in two.

 

Penny  07:42

Marcus almost whispers, "that's weird."

 

Mary Chandler  07:46

That's what I said.

 

Marcus Lillard  07:48

 I don't want to just go with it because that's the way y'all are kind of wanting to steer it. But, for that man to have kill himself who's supposed to be an enlightened man that no I mean,

 

Mary Chandler  07:56

he's been through a lot in life.

 

Marcus Lillard  07:58

 a lot of people look up to him and a lot of people think it's a spiritual thing and all that, but for him to have killed himself. There had to be something there had to be something to it. There had to be.

 

Mary Chandler  08:09

something's happening, you know at this house, I mean, something's going on. Who went and broke off the, umm,  there's like some flowers by the here's the front porch. There's like a bush over here. It's got flowers on it. And there's a bush here, but there's some flowers that are broken off right here. Where this come from? Did you do it? 

 

Marcus Lillard  08:29

No, I don't know nothing about that.

 

Mary Chandler  08:32

You didn't break any flowers off? Anything to do with you? 

 

Marcus Lillard  08:34

No, that don't make any kind of sense, but there's a whole lot of shit that don't make sense. That's a that may be something to come up later, but that little factor don't mean anything to me at this point.

 

Penny  08:47

ASAC Chandler asks Marcus if he would consent to give his DNA and he says yes. ADA Coffey stops the recording at this point and asks agent Maybin if this was the first time the defendant talked about Clark Heindel kissing Marianne Shockley while performing CPR. Agent, Maybin says I believe so. ADA Coffey asks if the defendant was ever able to give a definite answer of where he dropped her.

 

Agent Maybin  09:19

No, I mean, he said it was after he got her out of the hot tub and slipped. But I think he did say on the left side at one point, right side at another point. But yeah, he was he did change a little bit about where he dropped her at on the pool deck.

 

Penny  09:33

ADA Coffey says there was discussion of different articles of clothing found around the pool. Did the defendant ever say there were more than three people at the pool?

 

Agent Maybin  09:46

No, he was always very adamant that it was just him, Clark, and Marianne there. No one else ever arrived, showed up. Just the three.

 

Penny  09:59

ADA Coffey asks, Were you ever able to determine how long the clothes had been there? Agent Maybin says they were able to pick out the clothing that the defendant and Marianna Shockley were wearing that day based on the video footage. They found other clothing around, but the house wasn't well kept. And they don't know how long the clothing had been Clark Heindel's house. Ada coffee asks, did the defendant ever reach out to you after this interview?

 

Agent Maybin  10:32

Yes, yes, he did. So he wrote a handwritten note and gave it to a staff member at the sheriff's department jail and explained that he wanted to see us again, the GBI, and show some bug bites he found on his body.

 

Penny  10:52

The letter is entered as evidence and published to the jury and Agent Maybin met with the defendant again. This interview that's played for the jury is actually the fourth time agent Maybin spoke to Marcus.

 

Marcus Lillard  11:07

When I went in the woods and I've had this flash early like I laid down for a long time out there and that ain't just something I just would do There's bug bites all over back there.

 

Penny  11:18

Agent Maybin asks Marcus to pull down his jumpsuit so he can take pictures of the bug bites and other scratches on his body including a laceration on his head which Marcus also reports has a bump underneath it. Marcus has already been arrested and processed and booked and Agent Maybin seems very frustrated is a nice way to put it with Marcus's changing stories. Agent Maybin again repeats it doesn't make any sense and he starts to get fairly pissed off with Marcus at this point

 

Marcus Lillard  12:02

And then when we get to his place, I mean if he slipped us something then after that then that would have made sense then. That I went from being coherent to incoherent 

 

Agent Maybin  12:10

Why would he slip you somethin'?

 

Marcus Lillard  12:12

 well I mean if he's gonna do what he did then that's the only way that he would have been able to do it he wouldn't have done it with me there

 

Agent Maybin  12:18

I'm not buying it. Clark didn't, Clark didn't do it and you got, you did, you know what happened that night. You're the only one here.

 

Marcus Lillard  12:23

I don't

 

Agent Maybin  12:24

 I'm not gonna sit here listen to lies.

 

Marcus Lillard  12:25

Why else would he kill hisself? 

 

Agent Maybin  12:27

You tell me what happened? I want to know why, why? What happened?

 

Marcus Lillard  12:31

Have y'all checked her fingernails? Have y'all checked his fingernails? I mean that's what I'm telling you if you're saying it's this, then it's gotta add up

 

Agent Maybin  12:37

We got your DNA yesterday. There's reasons we got reasons why we get that. We got what we call, every time you you handle something rough or handle something with force. Whatever it is, you leave epithelial cells. It's  called Touch Contact DNA. 

 

Marcus Lillard  12:49

Uh huh.

 

Agent Maybin  12:50

It's here. Oh, her neck, and it's yours. 

 

Marcus Lillard  12:52

Okay, 

 

Agent Maybin  12:52

that's, when you handle something that rough, right here. It's gonna leave that DNA and it was there. So you tell me why that is?

 

Marcus Lillard  13:01

 That would have been in the process of CPR at some point. 

 

Agent Maybin  13:04

You don't do CPR on the neck. You know that. 

 

Marcus Lillard  13:06

It was moving her or CPR. 

 

Agent Maybin  13:08

So, you're gonna tell me, you touched her neck during CPR to enough to leave your your DNA. Is that what you're tell me?

 

Marcus Lillard  13:14

That's the only time I would have touched her. I promise you. 

 

Agent Maybin  13:16

You're gonna, you think I'm buying it or do you think a jury is gonna buy that? You've got to explain this you can't, you can't carry this. You can't carry this around like you're a damn killer man, or a serial killer, you're not; you're not a mean guy 

 

Marcus Lillard  13:28

I didn't do it.

 

Agent Maybin  13:28

It's, accidents happen. 

 

Marcus Lillard  13:30

I didn't do it. 

 

Agent Maybin  13:31

Your DNA is on her neck. 

 

Marcus Lillard  13:32

She was dead when I got back to the hot tub.

 

Agent Maybin  13:34

CPR does not explain it. Is it involuntary manslaughter or is it murder? There's a big difference

 

Marcus Lillard  13:40

I didn't do it. 

 

Agent Maybin  13:40

Yes you did do it and you cannot tell me, we got you on video doing CPR and at no time did you touch her neck. You did do some weird shit. But you didn't touch her neck. You did do some weird shit. Like you was talking yesterday. You say, oh Clark was French kissin her? Nah, you did it on the video. And you grabbed her, you touched her breast and you touched her vagina. You remember that? And your DNA is around her neck from contact force. Now I'm not sayin'

 

Marcus Lillard  14:06

His DNA is not on her neck?

 

Agent Maybin  14:07

No

 

Marcus Lillard  14:08

 None at all?

 

Agent Maybin  14:09

No.  I'm telling you

 

Marcus Lillard  14:10

 It's only mine? 

 

Agent Maybin  14:10

It's you.

 

Marcus Lillard  14:10

Only my DNA? 

 

Agent Maybin  14:11

It's you 

 

Marcus Lillard  14:12

Only my DNA? 

 

Agent Maybin  14:12

yes. There's always reasons people do things and I don't think you'd have done anything to hurt anybody in your right mind. I don't. I mean we all act different when we're fucked up [slaps the table in between words].

 

Marcus Lillard  14:23

Here's the thing is if, if Clark hadn't shot himself, I'd probably believe that I did it. 

 

Agent Maybin  14:27

I think Clark couldn't live with himself because he helped you sit there and think about how to cover it up and let that girl die on that fucking pool deck. Well, here's the here's the other thing. You might not have had sex with her, maybe you got pissed off Clark had sex with her. And you choked her. 

 

Marcus Lillard  14:41

No

 

Agent Maybin  14:42

Well, which one is it? Was You havin' sex and you accidentally choked her too hard? Or did you get pissed off because she was fucking Clark?

 

Marcus Lillard  14:48

I did not choke her.

 

Agent Maybin  14:49

 You choked her for some reason, you did. That is the whole thing. So everybody in this community is gonna say he choked that girl for no reason. That beautiful woman was killed because he didn't give a shit about her? Or was there a fucking legitimate reason or something that can be explained? Why you did it

 

Marcus Lillard  15:09

I did not hurt Marianne, I would not have hurt her.

 

Agent Maybin  15:11

You did it. I think you're sitting here thinking maybe I didn't, you're trying to convince yourself you didn't do it.

 

Marcus Lillard  15:15

I watched the woman I love die in My arms, or what I was what I thought was already dead. I gotta live with that regardless.

 

Agent Maybin  15:23

Listen to me, I'm not making any of this the shit up. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not and I'm not gonna listen to this. I'm not maybe first off, I was gone for 30 minutes collecting firewood.

 

Marcus Lillard  15:34

I'm trying to tell you, my memory's improvin'

 

Agent Maybin  15:34

 Maybe it's an hour and a half. I got bit by ants, come on man. You know, it doesn't matter how truthful a person is in their life, how much they've told the truth in the past. When you're put when you're backed into a corner and you're facing, especially a murder charge or responsible for the death of somebody, your first instinct is going to be to fucking lie. I aint' gonna lie, I probably would too. 

 

Marcus Lillard  15:56

I told you Do you know what the first thing I told you yesterday was, I don't even care about what happens to me because I belong back here. Regardless, for putting her in a position. Even though I didn't do it. I put her in a position, no matter what. It's my fault. Either way, I put her in the wrong place. Either way, they're gonna blame

 

Agent Maybin  16:14

Now they're gonna want to know why you put your hand around their daughter's neck. They're gonna want to know that. Why does she got broken ribs? Why does she have bruises? And I'm not making any of that just doesn't happen to somebody like and you not know about it?

 

Marcus Lillard  16:29

And I don't know if I'm dreaming this or this was a real statement or not, but I keep hearing it. And maybe it's just something I'm imagining. But I keep remembering every time I walked off from leaving her in the hot tub, she said Marcus Don't leave me in here, but in a kind of like a worried way. Marcus, don't leave me in here, please. And I said, no baby, I'll be right back. I won't be but just a second. 

 

Agent Maybin  16:49

What happened to your head, Marcus?

 

Marcus Lillard  16:49

I don't know. 

 

Agent Maybin  16:49

Tell me the truth. 

 

Marcus Lillard  16:50

I don't know. If you asked me, Marcus, why didn't you just put her in your truck or call 911? And I can't give an answer to that. I still don't know what I was thinking. And that's what makes me think I was drugged on something that I ain't used to. 

 

Agent Maybin  17:03

Out of two grown ass men. Neither one of you called 911 for two hours. 

 

Marcus Lillard  17:07

I agree.

 

Agent Maybin  17:07

And you sittin' here wondering why your ass is charged with murder.

 

Marcus Lillard  17:09

I'm not wondering. I'm not wondering.

 

Agent Maybin  17:11

You know why. 

 

Marcus Lillard  17:13

It wasn't me. That's what I'm saying. It wasn't me doing that. It was something

 

Agent Maybin  17:17

it might have might have been your alter damn personality when you when you're drugged, when you're drunk, when you're when you're high, when you're taking whatever the fuck you take. Maybe Maybe you have another person that comes out of you. A lot of people do.

 

Marcus Lillard  17:26

 Maybe I got drugged with something that I didn't realize

 

Agent Maybin  17:30

maybe it could have been was it possible you got drugged and you choked her and you don't realize it?

 

Marcus Lillard  17:35

I don't think so. And I know she was dead when I got back to that hot tub. That's all I remember. So so clearly.  here's the thing. 

 

Mary Chandler  17:43

Leaving the hot tub.

 

Agent Maybin  17:43

You say? You say she was dead? Well, our doctor says she was alive when she hit her head.

 

Marcus Lillard  17:48

I didn't cause her death. But I didn't I didn't keep her alive. So to me that's the same thing. Especially now. I thought, I thought she was dead when I got her out. I'd kind of, I ain't gonna say, had some sense of, I mean the only word to put in there is relief that you know I couldn't save her because she was already dead when I got there. So now you tell me that if I would've fucking called, she might still be alive.

 

Agent Maybin  18:10

when that head injury happened, our medical examiner says she was still alive. Your whole story I can't buy it because the injuries that woman has, they don't fit your story. How can a woman, your girlfriend, that you brought there, be killed, beaten, strangled all that all this happened to her and you not fucking know nothing about it? That, it blows my mind blows anybody's mind. 

 

Marcus Lillard  18:37

 It's fucking with me pretty hard right now, too.

 

Agent Maybin  18:37

Mmm hmmm. And your DNA is on her neck.

 

Penny  18:38

Agent Maybin asks Marcus, how did your clothes get wet on the porch? Marcus says he thinks he got in the pool got out of the pool, took his shorts off and then walked down to the hot tub. Marcus says his last clear memory was

 

Marcus Lillard  18:54

sitting on the porch, listenin' to, listenin' to some music. I can tell you exactly what album it was, what songs and everything

 

Agent Maybin  18:59

What was it?

 

Marcus Lillard  19:00

It was Bob Dylan desire. And then after that, there's no there's no clear memory and no clear thoughts. I mean, everything's just stupid. What made y'all think a third person come out there?

 

Agent Maybin  19:09

which I just wanted to make sure you wasn't hidin' something from me about someone else being out there. I mean, it was different beers I asked you about, clothes, stuff like that, but you say nobody was there. 

 

Marcus Lillard  19:19

if I had if I were swapping seats with you right now. Marcus is in the woods, obviously passed out for him to be able to get bit by ants and shit, and it not be a big thing. During that period of time. I mean, anything could've happened during that period of time. From what seemed like 30. I will say now it's probably an hour and a half as I'm thinking time back, you're all saying we got there a few minutes before seven. I will say it was close to nine when I walked in the woods and if it was 11 when I called Maria that means it's probably 1049 When I found Marianne,

 

Agent Maybin  19:45

what about the bruises on her hands, the bruises on her forearms and the bruises on her legs. Feet.

 

Marcus Lillard  19:51

I Can't speak for none of that.

 

Agent Maybin  19:53

Well, her mom and dad want to know, man, just tell us what the hell happened to her.

 

Marcus Lillard  19:57

I don't know. I don't know. When we moved around the pool a couple times and all that idiocy, I mean, there's probably some of that from that but the rest of it I can't explain. I did not kill that girl, man. I would not have killed Marianne. There's no reason I would have, there's no reason I would have, none. I didn't do it, but I know I've lost something now, and it ain't never gonna come back [starts crying]. Everyhing that I am positive that I did wrong, I've admitted

 

Agent Maybin  20:23

you still ain't put,  you still ain't told me how them hands was around her neck

 

Marcus Lillard  20:26

I don't remember it happening, and if I do, then I'll tell you

 

Agent Maybin  20:29

But you are quite sure she was dead, but you waited two hours to tell anybody about it

 

Marcus Lillard  20:33

when I immediately pulled her out it was just panic you know. I went and I got her out on the ground, it was, well then her head, when we fell, her head busted. That's the thing I remember the most clear is that the lights in the hot tub were green. I could see her hair sitting up out of the water a little bit and I walked over and I started hollerin' Mare,  Mare, Mare, she didn't respond and I think I got in the hot tub and looked at her and grabbed her. It's like Marianne, Marianne, Marianne, what's going on what's going on and then nothing and that's when I went to pull her out and we let's leave it that was the that part was even more clear than it was yesterday because I think I got in to get her out. She was still she was completely still and her face was under water. I know that part for sure is her nose and mouth were underwater when I got there. 

 

Reid White  21:13

And you pulled her out and you thought that she was already dead. 

 

Marcus Lillard  21:15

I was quite certain, I mean, it jumped back and forth between multiple different feelings, I mean none of that makes sense. Charge me with that. Charge me with not handling that shit right but I promise you I did not choke that woman or murder her. I know I didn't do that. Charge me with all that.  I'll take all that that you want to charge me for.

 

Penny  21:32

As the recording ends ADA Coffey asks agent Maybin if he took pictures of the defendant's bug bites. She shows these pictures to the jury and we will put these on our social media and our website. The first two pictures are of a scratch or laceration to Marcus's forehead at the hairline. The next picture is of bug bites on Marcus's back. Agent Maybin testifies that this was the first time Marcus said he received these bites when lying down in the woods instead of just walking around gathering firewood. Next there are pictures of his shins and thighs with more bug bites. ADA Coffey says in this interview agent Maybin indicated that they had DNA evidence specifically around her neck area. She asks Maybin Did you in fact have DNA evidence? 

 

Agent Maybin  22:31

No, we did, we did not. 

 

Penny  22:33

ADA Coffey asks, Why did you tell the defendant you had DNA evidence?

 

Agent Maybin  22:38

Well, that's an interview tactic we sometimes use is tell him our person we're interviewing that we have evidence we may not have to provoke a response.

 

Penny  22:50

Was DNA testing done for the fingernails? And was there any conclusive DNA found?

 

Agent Maybin  22:58

Yeah, we did test Marianne Shockley's fingernails and there was all inconclusive for any conclusively, I mean, person they could distinguish and more than likely it's probably due to the condition we found you know, she has been in the hot tub wet outside pool. I mean, I'm sure that had a lot to do with it.

 

Penny  23:20

Mr. Tucker objects to this being speculation. He says that agent Maybin is not qualified as an expert. And the ADA responds that as the case agent, he has spoken with the crime lab and was present for the testimony and Judge Burleson overruled the objection. ADA Coffey asked if they collected a rape kit.

 

Agent Maybin  23:45

Yes, there was a sexual assault kit performed

 

ADA Coffey  23:48

I'm sorry, a sexual assault kit, I apologize.

 

Agent Maybin  23:49

And those results were also inconclusive for any male DNA or semen.

 

Penny  23:59

Agent Maybin testifies that the defendant requested to go back to the scene and no additional information was obtained when they took Marcus back to Clark's house. ADA Coffey asks, did a search of car candles computer reveal anything that showed he liked to choke women?

 

Agent Maybin  24:20

No, there was no evidence of that. we didn't find anything of evidentiary value to this case.

 

Penny  24:26

ADA Coffey says she wants to go back to the first interview. Was the defendant actually arrested at the time of that first interview?

 

Agent Maybin  24:35

No, he was he was detained. I may have said the word arrested yesterday, I misspoke. He was, at that interview, he was being detained for questioning. He didn't have to speak to us. But he did. But he was not arrested. Not at that time, no.

 

Penny  24:50

Agent Maybin  testifies that even though the liquids did test positive for DMT with a field test, when they were tested at the lab, they tested negative for controlled substances. He says that the GBI crime lab does not test blood for psychedelics. ADA Coffey says no further questions and Judge Burleson releases us for our mid-morning break. And as I'm rushing to get coffee at Blackbird, I'm reflecting back on listening to the testimony. And when I'm listening to the recording of the interview between agent Maybin and Marcus Lillard, I know that they don't have DNA around her neck. But the jury doesn't know this. The jury doesn't learn that there isn't any DNA until ADA Coffey asks and Agent Maybin says buh buh buh, it's an interview technique that we use. Here's the thing though, even though I knew there was no DNA, it sounds real. It sounds convincing. And I'm sure that this is something that the jury considered as they were deliberating. On the next episode, we will hear Mr. Tucker's cross.

 

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